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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 18:23:25 GMT -5
This forum was suggested, should I want to join a Digimon RP.
Unfortunately I'm still wrapping my head around the scifi part of it and the limitations placed on things. On the bright side, I'm not seeing Xtros/Fusion's so that's heartening(Maybe I'm just a purist, but I like evenly organizing things into proper levels, even if we're shown a highly experienced Rookie level can take out a Champion level, instead of this "let's just mash digimon together however we feel like").
Oh well. I might just be going slowly before joining, but then again this forum doesn't seem to set a pace too fast for me, so here's hoping that's fine.
Now I just need to figure out what kind of Digimon to go with... my favorites are the Kabuterimon expanded family, but I'll have to see what's still... "open" I guess.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 20:04:25 GMT -5
Um I feel i should tell you Xross is in this but is a bit different than wars it more like hunters.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 20:05:09 GMT -5
Although thats a choice thing not a must
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 20:05:21 GMT -5
We love getting new members though.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 20:28:58 GMT -5
Yeah, I saw it, but you at least figured out how to do it in a not insane manner. And I'd just as soon avoid it all together to be honest, since even in the post covering the rules for it include such comments like "nobody wants the headache of figuring that out". But then I have questions for several other set ups(the Hybrids for example... is it possible to include digimon like Flammon and Strabimon in the Hybrid line somehow? A Child/Rookie Level for them to get knocked back down to after being defeated)
And yes, I consider Ballistamon to be part of the Kabuterimon family. I'm just not sure WHERE Ballistamon fits into it.
I assume that Fan-mon are allowed as well, given some of the things I'm seeing. I might go that route, but first looking to see where I could fit in.
In the meantime, I've been playing with some pixelartworks. Perhaps I should share them here...
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 22:10:47 GMT -5
Hey JW!! :3 glad to have you join us, I'm Vicetorius but feel free to call me Vice or MG~ hope you enjoy your time here~
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Post by SoltheGuilmon on May 22, 2016 7:55:21 GMT -5
Yeah, I saw it, but you at least figured out how to do it in a not insane manner. And I'd just as soon avoid it all together to be honest, since even in the post covering the rules for it include such comments like "nobody wants the headache of figuring that out". But then I have questions for several other set ups(the Hybrids for example... is it possible to include digimon like Flammon and Strabimon in the Hybrid line somehow? A Child/Rookie Level for them to get knocked back down to after being defeated) And yes, I consider Ballistamon to be part of the Kabuterimon family. I'm just not sure WHERE Ballistamon fits into it. I assume that Fan-mon are allowed as well, given some of the things I'm seeing. I might go that route, but first looking to see where I could fit in. In the meantime, I've been playing with some pixelartworks. Perhaps I should share them here... Hello, glad to see you're taking the time to consider us. I am the head admin here and pretty much the brains behind the forum, if you have any questions you can ask them of me directly through PM if you wish. As for your statement regarding the Hybrids regressing to a digimon like Flamon and Strabimon, neither would be needed since Hybrids do not work like regular evolution lines. They can however be integrated into a standard Digimon line. Also, Ballistamon would be considered a Child level if it suits you and finally, Fan-mon are allowed provided they're well balanced and fit nicely into the story line.
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Post by Dantelion on May 22, 2016 9:35:21 GMT -5
Welcome to the site. I do hope you will stay around and give us a chance. Half of use are crazy btw so I hope we don't scare you off. lol
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 19:57:23 GMT -5
I don't worry about crazy people. It's the ones who are sane you have to watch out for.
And while hybrids don't have a normal evolution line, I'm not sure the whole regression thing is in play either. Being knocked out or expending themselves in a "Limit Break" style attack does not reduce them back to a lower level(as was seen in Adventure1 where Angemon went all the way back to egg to take out Devimon, or WarGreymon being reduced to Koromon after putting his all into an attack that defeated Machinedramon). If the mechanic isn't used, there isn't much of a point to have that extra stage, since it's never normally hit by hybrids(only reason it seems to exist at all is that one episode, which could have all just been a bad dream.) Still, even if not applicable to this forum, it's kinda something interesting I think.
Oh, that does make me wonder... could a Digimon become a Hybrid in this system? It sorta implies they have to be humans, and I'm not sure of the ruling on things like the show versions of Grumblemon, Ranamon, etc.
Ballistamon is child level? Huh. I would have thought Adult at least, since he seems to have a pre-Ballistamon form and a post form as well(Altur Ballistamon... would that be translated as Mega Ballistamon?) Oh well, doesn't matter.
Does the group have any insect users at all? I mean, I like other designs(perhaps a natural born Lobomon? I just have a silly mental image of a Strabimon trying to flirt with a Renamon) and might try them out instead. If I make a Fan-mon I'll obviously run it by the mods before thinking it could be used.
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Post by SoltheGuilmon on May 23, 2016 8:16:16 GMT -5
I don't worry about crazy people. It's the ones who are sane you have to watch out for. And while hybrids don't have a normal evolution line, I'm not sure the whole regression thing is in play either. Being knocked out or expending themselves in a "Limit Break" style attack does not reduce them back to a lower level(as was seen in Adventure1 where Angemon went all the way back to egg to take out Devimon, or WarGreymon being reduced to Koromon after putting his all into an attack that defeated Machinedramon). If the mechanic isn't used, there isn't much of a point to have that extra stage, since it's never normally hit by hybrids(only reason it seems to exist at all is that one episode, which could have all just been a bad dream.) Still, even if not applicable to this forum, it's kinda something interesting I think. Oh, that does make me wonder... could a Digimon become a Hybrid in this system? It sorta implies they have to be humans, and I'm not sure of the ruling on things like the show versions of Grumblemon, Ranamon, etc. Ballistamon is child level? Huh. I would have thought Adult at least, since he seems to have a pre-Ballistamon form and a post form as well(Altur Ballistamon... would that be translated as Mega Ballistamon?) Oh well, doesn't matter. Does the group have any insect users at all? I mean, I like other designs(perhaps a natural born Lobomon? I just have a silly mental image of a Strabimon trying to flirt with a Renamon) and might try them out instead. If I make a Fan-mon I'll obviously run it by the mods before thinking it could be used. The episode in question where Takuya had become Flamon is likely the result of the Dark Area's influence, when Duskmon inadvertently sent him there due to Takuya's very powerful negative emotions. Under regular circumstances, any defeated Hybrid is returned to human state and although Digimon can become a hybrid-type digimon by using the spirit in question, I do not have a system in place to support this. Though I am currently working on a spirit theft system, so perhaps this idea can be integrated into that system. Specifically for Ranamon and Grottomon, Cherubimon used his dark magic to return the spirits of Water, Steel, Earth and Wood to life without a direct host. (If memory serves, if they had a digitama upon defeat I can't remember, in which case disregard the without a host part. xD.) When you say pre-Ballistamon form, Kokabuterimon comes to mind so it's very possible he is Adult. Though since evolution was lost for hundreds of years prior to Xros Wars starting, it's possible Ballistamon was born Ballistamon. The only person that has an insect digimon I believe is the Guild Master of Crimson Riders, Gordon Scarsborough.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2016 18:51:45 GMT -5
Well the write ups in the Digimon Reference Book, and I'll admit I'm just checking Wikimon's translation of that, say that both Strabimon Flamon were created with their respective Human Spirit was "reduced in power"(one says when Agnimon lost power, the other says when Wolfmon/Lobomon had it's power halved). So I guess there's some interpretation there. I personally see it as the Child form to the related Adult form. And while the Human Spirits are for the most part very powerful for Adult/Champion level, that's more because they're powerful digimon rather than anything to do with their evolution level. Ranamon and Fairymon/Kazemon are examples of Human spirits, or even Beast Spirits, who are not all that powerful, which I would think evens out the likes of Agnimon and Lobomon when judging the Human Spirits.
That said, for the episode in question, it could all have been a dream, or it could have been the Spirit of Flame WITHOUT a human host, going back in time to ensure the human hosts arrival, or really any number of things. The episode was a little tripy and unexplained, and more to the point the episode AFTER that was even more confusing with Agnimon now going on about being a "true Digimon" and "Giving up his human limitations to become one with the digital world" and "using the natural power of the elements"(such as anticipating/summoning a thunderstorm). Mercuremon even notices and remarks on the changes, fleeing from the fight as though these changes, which were not fully demonstrated, caused him and Ranamon to now be outclassed. Changes which are then never heard from again.
Had that plotline been continued, I could see Flamon being a way for him to train in "being a digimon" without using the power of a Human or Beast spirit as a crutch, getting used to thinking more like a digimon and using it's natural instinctual abilities(animalistic senses, a connection with digital "nature" etc). Teaching him to fight "smarter" rather than simply trying to fight harder and just pour more power into his fire attacks, teaching his fellow Legendary Warriors to do the same. But while a neat thought(just as I loved the fusion attacks used to confuse and overpower Sephirothmon/Sakkakumon, I'm a sucker for outside the box thinking), probably not relevant.
I'm not sure if the "pure" Legendary Warriors left behind a digitama when defeated or not. I don't recall them doing so, but then I don't recall some others doing so either, and they were still reborn as digitama by the end. Still, not sure it matters, as you said non-Hybrids can still use those forms, so a, for example, Tentomon could have in it's evolutionary tree a Blogmon/MetalKabuterimon form, right? The only thing lost would be the Slide evolution between "Champion" and "Ultimate"(admittedly a strong "Champion" weak "Ultimate" which is why the Human Spirit was not automatically outclassed when the Beast Spirits were introduced, Hybrids do have their own level system to work with but it has rough translations) form and the huge hassle hitting the higher levels.
No, when I said Pre-Ballistamon form I was thinking of DarkVolumon(who's name I totally spaced on), one of Olegmon's minions who fought Shoutmon. Shoutmon showed mercy and he became Ballistamon joining Shoutmon's team. Again, there's some interpretation there, given that DarkVolumon and Ballistamon look to be the same Digimon, just in different "modes"(for example DarkVolumon's head is Ballistamon's head with the horn parted down the middle turning it from a Rhino beetle to a Stag beetle... or a Kabuterimon into a Kuwagamon) rather than it being an official digivolution.
Hrm... I wonder... I was thinking a normal human character, an Anima character(maybe based on Sparrowmon? I'd need to fill in additional levels), and a Kokabuterimon with the Frontier Thunder Spirit line as it's evolution path(it would be a pureborn digimon not a hybrid, and somebody already has the Thunder Spirit anyway. Besides why are Insects considered Thunder in the Digimon world? I know of enough insect digimon with poison or wind attacks...). Or maybe a Partner duo with a girl and her adorable little jumping spider digimon... So many options...
... after a bit of looking you seem to have all the Hybrid elements in use, or pending. Since doubling up apparently isn't allowed, would it be beyond the realm of possiblities for additional elements to be introduced? Right off the top of my head I'm picturing... whatever the heck element Murmukusmon was using(D'arcmon as his Human spirit and Hippogriffomon as Beast spirit) or the Element of Magic with a Wizardmon or Witchmon as the human form and Mistymon or Medieval Dukemon as one of the higher evolutions... which now makes me wonder what this forums stance on Witchelny is. Just another "in joke" put into digimon like Nanimon(who's from Tamagochi) was? Or another dimension like the Dark Ocean?
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Post by SoltheGuilmon on May 23, 2016 20:35:43 GMT -5
What you have to keep in mind is that the Digimon Reference Book/Wikimon are canon translations but exclude the human integration. So, you're correct in your statement of Flamon and Strabimon being the child forms of the hybrids because after Frontier, they ceased being hybrids and became regular classified Digimon as shown in Digimon Rumble Arena 2 and later in the Xros Wars Manga. The elements of the respective hybrids actually hold a huge factor in each hybrids individual strength. In Digimon, Fire, Light and Darkness digimon are notoriously known for being very powerful in their own right. In addition, their species also counts towards their overall strength. Excluding gods, Dragon, Angel and Devil type species are the most powerful among the digimon races. Agunimon descends from Ancient Greymon, a dragon fire type. So his genetics are immediately in favor of being powerful. Lobomon in terms of strength, if we look at the wolf/beast species, are not as powerful but make up for it with raw combat ability. This is a common trait among nearly all beast type Digimon, due to them being descended from Ancient Garurumon who's main weaponry are two swords. So, my point being is each hybrid has it's own strength that gives it an edge over another.
In a way, you're right about it being a dream...but to really understand it, you have to first understand how the Dark Area and it's influence works. I can already assure you it wasn't the spirit of flame without a human host, things would have played differently as the spirits although are under control of a human, has a mind of it's very own. Evidence of this is with the Beast Spirits, who are more feral in nature and therefore have a more difficult time submitting to a host. Also, to explain the next episode, Agnimon as I said, has it's own mind and feelings. Up until that point, Takuya hadn't noticed it. He wasn't truly synced with the spirit of fire so instead of meshing together to be a better overall fighter, Takuya and the rest of the kids, unknowingly suppressed the Digimon's mind. It's actually not unlike biomerging from Tamers. Once Takuya realized this and allowed to sync with the Digimon's mind, he became a better hybrid. Mercuremon ran from the fight because, just like in any season, a human makes a Digimon more powerful. Once Takuya worked with Agnimon, the human spirit became vastly more powerful outclassing Mercuremon, who had no human to boost his strength.
With Takuya finally syncing not just body but mind with the Human Spirit, he'd have the abilities to fight better probably via bleed through effect.
Correct again, after the Frontier arc, which through extensive study I have learned is the prequel to Adventure, the hybrids were integrated into regular digimon levels. So Tentomon could essentially evolve into what would have once been a hybrid.
Well, here is the thing about that, Xros Wars the anime is not canon to the franchise. The manga Xros Wars which was entirely different and a hundred thousand times better then the show, was the canon version that placed itself at the very end of the timeline spectrum. The anime was simply a marketing ploy, to sell merchandise out the behind. The manga actually went into extreme depth about everything the anime didn't. So, DarkVolumon techinically shouldn't even exist. Though it's possible, (again thanks to the Xros Wars manga) that the anime actually happens in a parallel timeline offset from the main one. In any case, DarkVolumon is the same level as Ballistamon, it was more of a slide evolution then a regression. Atlur Ballistamon who is the Ultimate/Mega level of Ballistamon is the canon version who appeared in the manga.
Sparrowmon is a fun choice, it's Ultimate/Mega level is Raptor Sparrowmon FYI. The Kokabuterimon thing is a good choice as well. The Thunder Hybrid is actually the head of W.A.D.A., Ino; an NPC. The available elements are Wood and recently opened Ice. Well, whatever you pick I'm sure you'll do it well!
Murmukusmon wasn't using a spirit, it was likely by use of magic he was pulling that off. Since this forum follows the canonology of the franchise, we wouldn't be adding elements that don't exist. I am however working on something to alleviate the filling of all hybrids. I have a few fun ideas I'll be introducing in time. Currently, I have nothing planned involving Witchelny, but it exists in this universe. The Dark Ocean is actually just the beginning area of the Dark Area, a.k.a. hell of the Digital World. We use it quite extensively as the Dark Guild Imperium is currently housed on it's sandy shores within the Dark Area.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2016 1:23:37 GMT -5
Right. Give or take we're in agreement there. Agunimon is a powerful Digimon in his own right, even if he is "merely" a Champion level. Likewise Angel/Demon/Dragon digimon tend to be quite powerful, while Beast, Puppet or Aquatic types not so much. I would debate Lobomon's power level being lesser than Loweemon or Agunimon, though his light(IE Angelic) half mixed with his skill(even as a human he showed combat training) kept him "in the game" as it were. Where as the other Legendary Warriors were falling behind at that point and(sadly) were soon dismissed completely(in what I consider bad writing).
As a side note, have you ever noticed how the "Fusion" and "Ancient" forms of the Fire, Light/Beast, Darkness, and possibly(though I don't really think so) Thunder all look to be... how to put this... made of the same model kits, just put together differently. Like Beowolfmon is clearly Lobomon wearing KendoGarurumon as armor, and Ancient Garurumon is the same, only using KendoGarurumon's head instead of Lobomon's head, using KendoGarurumon's claws and wheels as gauntlets instead of shoulder pads, and dividing the swords(which are KendoGarurumon's wings) instead of merging them. Almost as if those three were designed specifically to be used as Hybrids, while something like DaiPenmon was just thrown in when nobody could come up with anything better. Again, it's a sort of neither here nor there kind of observation.
That episode could have been the Spirit of Flame providing the body(since there was that human body already there and time travel nonsense), while the human half provided the mind. I'm not really sure that the Dark Area is even connected to that little side adventure, at least not as the Dark Area is defined in Frontier(IE the prison of Lucemon contained beneath the rest of the Digital world). And while the spirits seem to have an influence, I'm not sure they have their own minds. At no point that I remember was it shown that there was a "second voice" in the heads of any of the protagonists(excluding Cerubimon's), the only influence they seem to demonstrate is that the Beast Spirits are harder to control and seem more feral. That lack of control could easily be explained by a human mind being suddenly shoved into a body with entirely different senses and not being able to identify their surroundings(the "feral" reaction seems similar to the nightmare episode, not being able to recognize friend from foe and resolved in much the same manner, meaning even human spirits are susceptible to such confusion). So all we're left with is the idea that the "pure" Digimon Legendary Warriors, like Mercuremon, Ranamon, etc were actually digimon at all but were animated spirits. I suppose it's open to interpretation.
Humans are shown in most versions to be both a boon and liability for the digimon's combat ability. A boon in that the human is providing Digisoul and powering that digimon, letting it grow faster and reach greater levels of power(and evolution), and a liability in that you have a mortal, easily stepped on or caught in a stray blast, child standing at the ankle of sky scraper destroying beasts. I always figured that Frontier was doing the same way, only with the idea that the human mind had a very hard time processing what it was like to be a digimon. The humans MAY have been providing more "fuel" for the Digimon to make them more powerful(we never really see proof of that one way or the other, the BurningGreymon/Vritramon being hosted by Shamamon and then Takuya I think is... indecisive. The Dark Beetlemon vrs Beetlemon battle ends only with a self destruct of both breaking the illusion) but their human half was almost certainly providing a liability to them as well. That liability probably could have been explored more as they learn to adjust to their new bodies, which I think was what the Flamon sequence was meant to be. Prior to that practically all even leveled or above digimon gave them a major issue, and the "pure" hybrid Digimon outclassed them at nearly every turn. After that the only challenges they really had were against things that very obviously outclassed them(Cherubimon, the Royal Knights, etc). But I could be wrong, it's all my interpretation.
"Extensive Studying"... admit it, you were reading fun comics, weren't you?
Which is why Xtros gives me such a headache... Okay, Dark Volumon and Ballistamon, as near as I can tell, are canonically "unleveled"(like a number of Xtros introduced digimon, particularly the ones introduced in the anime not the manga). So yes, that's why I referred to them as a "mode change" though "Slide Evolution" could, I guess, be applicable(it implies that a Human spirit and a Beast spirit are "the same level" when they're usually not seen as being so. They could be with the choice of one over the other being a tactical choice as to what that character felt was a better response to the threat presented, but usually the Beasts are seen as more powerful than the Humans). Mode changes also suffer similarly(while the level doesn't really change, Imperialdramon is seen as less combat capable than Imperialdramon Fighter Mode, and Burst Modes are more powerful than the baseline mode). Anyway, we can agree on Atlur Ballistimon.
Unfortunately that leads to Ballistamon and Sparrowmon both to have a Rookie and Mega level only, with no Champion, or Ultimate in between. Likewise Kodokugamon is a BABY level, and at this point Xtros just has me pulling my hair out.
I'd need to work out something besides Sparrowmon and RaptorSparrowmon, even if I am going with an Anima. I may want to re-arrange those, making RaptorSparrowmon an Ultimate and Sparrowmon a Champion so it makes a little more sense(like how there's a Garurumon and a WereGarurumon or a Greymon and a MetalGreymon) filling in a final form with a Fanmon(and with anima the Rookie form is the human with digimon bits so that shouldn't be too tricky. Call it KoSparrowmon if I have to). Heck, Sparrowmon nearly defeated Lucemon's final form(Anime, noncanon, I know I know), so I'm saying that's a bit too powerful to just be a Rookie...
Ice is open again? I thought an Ice was pending. And for a Wood Element hybrid I have the silliest notion of a man wearing the Rosemon outfit. Lord Rosemon... no. Leave that for somebody else. I've submitted my Kokabuterimon idea, waiting on feedback.
I honestly have no idea what Murmukusmon was using. However, the three of them(D'arcmon, Hippogriffomon and Murmukusmon) do make for a thematically compatible trio of Human Spirit, Beast Spirit, and Fused Spirit. All that's needed is the Ancient, and even then Ornismon might fit. For all we know Murmukusmon might have been using the same magic that created the spirits, but without an element(because, and you may consider this to be backwards, I see the Spirits being created from Digimon, not digimon being created by Spirits. It wasn't that there was a Spirit of Water, it was that there was Legendary Warrior Ancient Mermaimon who divided her power into a human and a beast spirit which just happened to retain her affinity, thus an Element of Water). If I was forced to wedge an element into this, then the best I could come up with is Divine. Not a great fit in my opinion, made worse by people assuming that the Element of Light would mean holy(I'm not sure it's supposed to in the case of Lobomon et al).
The elements of Fire, Light, Wind, Wood, Water, Ice, Earth, Steel, and Darkness were only used once that I know of(Frontier). Another version has Holy, Dragon, Beast, Bird, Insect/Plant, Fish, Machine, and Demon. Which is an even shorter list and even less useful in my opinion. And then Adventure gives us Digital Elements(Digimentals) of Courage, Friendship, Love, Purity, Knowledge, Sincerity, Hope, Light, Kindness, and Miracles. And Fate, and Darkness, Pride, Desire, and Tenacity. Because Gah My Head. So while I appreciate the idea of sticking to canon, it's also canon that each new series introduces a new twist and it wouldn't be beyond consideration to throw a new Element in if it looked like it could work. Heck, each Deva could have made something like the Ancient Warriors did, and that gives us two more. We already have the Anti-Hybrids, which I assume can double up(a Hybrid of Darkness being Loweemon, the Anti-hybrid of Darkness being Duskmon as a canonical example?) giving at least twenty openings...
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